Introductions to Discussions
Each discussion on this forum has a central theme. The standing discussions, those that have a specific entrance from the Lobby, are global topics that everyone needs to explore in their pursuit Higher Consciousness. The Member-Initiated Discussions (MID's), found in the Member-Initiated Discussions Hall, vary with the current interests of those who are participating in them. These have themes that people sometimes find are particularly challenging in their pursuit. Exploring them with other seekers is often helpful in "feeling your way along."
Here, on this page, you will find an introduction to each discussion. This will give you a good idea of the theme you will find in a discussion, so you can jump right in and participate. As you can read about in Forum Insights, in the Consciousness Education Center, the more you post, the faster you will grow. This fascinating dynamic shows itself over and over. Participation is the key to maximum benefit from these forum discussions.
All discussions are pruned bi-weekly to leave only the most recent posts. Think of this as a verbal discussion you might have. When you approach a group of people in a verbal discussion you might first listen to the current exchanges, so as not to interrupt. But you do not need to catch up on the entire history of the discussion in order to participate. The same holds true here, which is why we delete posts beyond a certain age. MID's, the entire discussion, are deleted if they sit idle for more than a month.
There are powerful insights that are added to every discussion as it develops. If you wish to retain these insightful posts, you can copy the text from the post, using the browser menu options, and paste it into your own word processing file on your computer. Please remember to give credit to the author, when copying his or her words.
(click on any title to see the introduction)
Standing Discussions and their location:
The Terrace: "Relationships and Emotional Intimacy"
The Solarium: "Emotions and Higher Consciousness"
Member-Initiated Discussions (since Aug. 2006)
A Beginning
Alcoholic Family Issues
Anticipation of Issues
Astounding Denial Messages
Bringing Up an IssueComments about Anything on BTN
Getting to Know You ... Getting to Know All About You
Holidays - Gift Giving and Receiving
Parenting and Higher Consciousness
Path of Emotion - What do YOU do?
Physical Aspect--The Challenges of Illness/Injury
Physical Realm
Psychodynamics
Reactions: Bad, Responses: Good
Resistance
Standing Discussions and their location:
The Terrace: "Relationships and Emotional Intimacy"
Started May 25, 2005 - SB
The relationships you have in your life provide one of the most effective means for measuring the consciousness you have realized, and for receiving instant feedback about what lessons you still need to learn. Each relationship acts like a mirror for your dynamics, your ability to create certain experiences, and the ways you embrace and deal with your lessons of consciousness.
Learning to see the reflection in the mirror is one of the major lessons in any relationship. Our unconscious wants to see the reflection as the other person, or even to demonize the reflection. It is a challenge in every primary relationship to remember that the reflection we see is not the Devil, it’s not even our partner. Instead, it is a reflection of our own issues.
I am speaking, of course, about the stage of relationship known as the power struggle. In stages preceding the power struggle, the attraction and romance stages, the image appears angelic, as a saving grace, there to make you whole again. But it is still your own issues being reflected back to you.
Knowing the stages of a romantic relationship can be very helpful. In addition to reading about these in Feeling Your Way Along, you can find out even more by reading the books by the founder of Imago Therapy, Harville Hendrix. Look for Getting the Love You Want, or Keeping the Love You Find.
We suspect that parent-child relationships and child-parent relationship also have identifiable stages that they must go through, although we have not yet come across a good description of these stages. Certainly, there are developmental stages for every individual that continue to emerge throughout one’s life. But the stages of relationship between a child and a parent would involve the dynamics that occur when the two individuals try to relate from their respective developmental stages.
Use this topic to explore how your relationships are directly related to the level of consciousness you practice. In other words, if you want a Higher Consciousness relationship, you must learn and practice Higher Consciousness dynamics. Parents who want their children to develop greater consciousness first need to learn how to be more conscious. Children who want to create conscious relationships with their parents must first learn their own lessons of consciousness. The quality of relationships in your life is a direct reflection of the level of consciousness you practice. Anyone can learn the skills, if they are willing to deal with their own issues.
(continued May 31, 2005 by Donna BE)
Welcome to the discussion on Relationships and Higher Consciousness!
Relationships offer one of the most powerful vehicles for personal growth into Higher Consciousness. Your relationships offer the perfect environment to invite your issues to surface in your awareness. Remember that awareness only serves your growth when you use it. So, here’s an opportunity to explore your awareness in this group and use it to begin a discussion. A few suggestions…
*First, take some time to reflect on one of your significant relationships. It may be your romantic relationship, a child-parent relationship, a parent-child relationship, or a close friendship.
*Next, you might begin this discussion by sharing with the group how you use this relationship to better identify your issues.
*If you like, tell them what level of consciousness you practice in this relationship. Be honest. Do you, as an example, show vulnerability and offer safety at the intimacy level of consciousness (level four)? Or, do you go after perceived safety, staying in your comfort zone at the security level of consciousness (level one)?
*If you feel reluctant to address issues in your relationship, hoping to prolong the romance stage, it’s ok to talk about that also.
*You might even ask others in the group how they assess the quality of their significant relationships and how they use them in their pursuit of Higher Consciousness.
So, how about getting the discussion going!
(continued Jan. 11, 2006 - SB)
We would like to add to this central topic of relationships & Higher Consciousness. You have already heard that relationships provide an invaluable vehicle for personal growth, once understood correctly. First, one must have a clear understanding of how one's issues result from the imprints in their unconscious.
Second, one learns how these same issues create an internal template, called an imago, that determines who one finds attractive. This naturally leads to romantic relationships that measure high on the imago scale. Thus, romantic relationships have a built-in capability for raising the same issues of childhood, making them a perfect (if not divine) vehicle for personal growth.
As a result of proper framing of romantic relationship work, the seeker usually goes looking for how these same issues show up elsewhere. The relationships one has with their friends is the next logical measure. Then their children and their siblings.
At the end of the list for nearly everyone comes the relationships one has with his or her parents (or primary caretakers). These come under close scrutiny (i.e. exploration for the purpose of finding Personal Truth), looking for the issues, the imprints, the sources of emotion, and if there is a good working relationship between you and your parent, an answer to the question "who is responsible for what" --- thus, growth occurs.
Work with parents is especially difficult because there are so many patterns and roles that must be discarded in order to arrive at honest exchange. And life is just too damn short to accommodate all the sorting needed. By the time the seeker is clear enough to be ready to deal with parent issues, he or she is usually old enough that their parents are elderly or deceased, making it even more difficult to explore together. The younger one begins their seeking in earnest, the better the chances of completing this stage of relationship work. By the way, parent work can be done even after your parents have died. It is a little harder, but doable.
Child-parent relationship work is the most powerful work one does, up till now, because you are dealing directly with the most fundamental issues. All your lower consciousness reactions will muddy the waters of truth in every attempt to honestly explore. (Notice how many "if's" are inherent in this work.) It is innately difficult, even when parents are cooperative and willing to deal with everything (which rarely occurs). Parent work is advanced emotional work, which is why it presents such difficulty for most people.
Remember that parents are the living images of the omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. To the unconscious, they are equated with God. When you do your child-parent relationship work, you are beginning your work with God. This work continues beyond parent work, but it gets a good start here. This is where you end the work of issues, and begin the work of Enlightenment. But it must go in proper stages: self, romantic partner, friends, children, siblings, parents, God.
Relationship work is truly an Enlightenment system.
(continued Jan.20, 2006 - SB)
One can begin their self-discovery anywhere. The start is usually driven by where the disharmony is at its greatest. It can be issues with a parent, a spouse, one's identity or purpose, aloneness, with children, or any other situation in life. Regardless of where the issues are located, this reflects the first stage of relationship work, the relationship with self, where the skills of consciousness are first learned.
There is much discovery that must occur here, before one begins their journey of creating all of their life to reflect their newly-claimed Personal Truth. When one has connected to Personal Truth, and discovered its access to the divine, there comes a realization that nothing less will do. So the journey begins to clean up all relationships. There is a natural progression already described.
This is a "deep and thorough house-cleaning", rather than the occasional "picking-up" or "superficial cleaning" done up to this point. There may even be "re-modeling" involved when re-constructing one's life to reflect Personal Truth. If you commit to BEing in Truth, there are no partial measures. There can be no acceptable level of denial. All relationships are de-constructed and then reconstructed, usually in a predictable order.
Work? You bet! Frightening? Undoubtedly. But it can be done if taken in stages, one step at a time. There is no hurry to "get the job done." Just "feel your way along" and you will know what needs attention now. This forum is a place where we all can share this process and take heart in each other's courage. How long does it take? "A lifetime, maybe longer."
(continued Apr. 18, 2006 - SB)
Relationship with self
Relationships with people connected with errands (activities of daily living)
Relationships with those in close proximity (e.g. neighbors)
Relationship with work associates
Relationships with friends (people with whom you share common interests)
Relationships with lovers
Relationships with siblings
Relationships with children
Relationship with committed romantic partner
Relationships with parents
Relationship with God
These are all specific relationships that raise specific issues. No one gets a pass from any of these. Even if the role is filled in the negative, "no siblings" or "no children", there is a relationship.
When looking at "Relationships and HC", we do not need to restrict our scope to romantic relationships. The unconscious is always working. Imago is always guiding our sense of attraction. Our issues are always present. And the degree of risk grows at each new step.
Romantic relationships are perhaps the easiest in which to see our emotions. However, with a little attention, all the others become vehicles for growth too.
(continued Jun. 5, 2006 - SB)
Anyone who practices the Path of Emotion for discovering and living in accordance with their Personal Truth (see Feeling Your Way Along), eventually must address the discrepancy that obviously exists between the current state of a relationship and the potential it has for moving into a whole new level of consciousness, the Intimacy Level.
This disharmony occurs with every relationship of importance. It is usually felt first in a romantic relationship. However, siblings, friends, parents, children, work associates, neighbors, and all remaining relationships are subject to this same review.
This prospect frightens most people to some degree, since there is no guarantee how the other person is going to react to your invitation to them to begin looking at themselves. Because you want to grow into Higher Consciousness, and you do not want to break-off important relationships, you naturally want the other person to assume their responsibility for personal growth, and relate to you in a mutual pursuit of Higher consciousness.
After, a few attempts to probe the waters of having both your continuous growth and an on-going relationship, you quickly learn that there will always be much resistance from the other person. They may or may not find their own truth about the inherent value and necessity for personal growth. As you continue to enact more of your Personal Truth, relationships quickly become strained. You are rocking the boat containing the unconscious agreements upon which the old relationship was created. As carefully as you try to approach this dilemma with sensitivity, caring, respect and patience, you will inevitably be seen as a threat and a danger to the old relationship.
It will be obvious that one of the most common experiences of the pursuit of Higher Consciousness is the need to make the choice over and over again, about continuing a relationship that began before waking up to the pursuit (and how would this be done in truth) versus acknowledging that the relationship no longer serves your growth, and having to accept its dissolution.
We propose that we include in this discussion thread, talking about our various attempts to invite someone else into the pursuit of Higher Consciousness and the results in the relationship. Personal Growth is never easy. Perhaps we can help to make the journey easier to deal with, by comparing notes.
Share how you acknowledge and approach the discrepancy between what is and what could be, what you say to the other person, how they respond (or react), how they discover the need to claim their own responsibility for this pursuit (not just coattail on your discoveries and changes), how they perceive you, how you deal with the evolving stress in the relationship, what else you go through as a result of this recurring experience, and so on.
The Solarium: "Emotions and Higher Consciousness"
Started Apr. 14, 2006 - Stephen and Donna BE
As explained in Feeling Your Way Along, most people need to learn emotional skills as an essential step in their pursuit of Higher Consciousness. We have determined that this value needs greater emphasis here in BEingThere.net, if we are to provide the quality forum experience that was envisioned.
The other areas of this forum provide either a frame for exploring consciousness issues in a specific context, such as in relationships or at work, or they provide a theoretical discussion to explore the vision of Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment, as it is presented in a variety of teachings. These are very helpful too, but they do not substitute for direct learning of emotional skills.
Consequently, we are introducing a new topic in the Solarium to better provide a foundation for emotional expression, emotional discovery and emotional exploration. This is an area where anyone, and hopefully everyone, will have ample opportunity to learn and practice basic skills. We invite you to use this forum discussion to share your emotions with fellow members.
Since willingness to feel is the first choice of consciousness, exploring emotion is the primary tool for pursuing Higher Consciousness. It is at the heart of seeking, so it is located at the heart of BEingThere.net, the Solarium.
The situations in your life provide a context for your emotions. It helps to begin a post with a short description of the situation surrounding your emotion. Then proceed with descriptions of what you felt. Explaining the situation is only necessary to allow others to understand the emotional invitations you encountered in that situation.
In more advanced emotional skills, two individuals often do not need context. But for emotional novices, which most of us are, context is helpful, if not essential. The point to remember, however, is that the context is not the main subject. Do not allow yourself to indulge in the natural inclination to paint elaborate stories, and thereby avoid sharing your emotion. It is your emotion that provides the means for exploration. Use situations only to explain emotion. Use emotion to explore inward.
As you use this area, strive to keep your descriptions about the situations to a minimum. Instead, use your post to share your emotions and to respond to the emotional sharing of others. The more you talk about emotion, the easier it is to identify your own experiences.
There are skills of exploration that every seeker must develop. There are also skills of relating that are required for developing relationships with others. In the former, you are the presenter. In the latter, you are the listener. In the former, you must learn how to name, describe and explore your own emotion. In the latter, you must learn how to be helpful in someone else’s discovery. There are specific skills to be learned in both roles.
The basic emotional skills of naming an experience and describing it to others are challenging enough for many. Do not let your apprehension about “doing it right” interfere with the opportunity to practice sharing your emotions. Do not worry about how well you do it.
This is a time when it is appropriate to “just do it.” The idea is to open your doors to allow others to see you. The listeners will engage with you to clarify and understand your report. A simple statement like, “I was filled with anxiety when I saw the police lights in my mirror,” is an invitation to your fellow seekers to begin exploring together.
Sharing emotions is a skill that gets easier with practice. Say how you feel. Try to describe the experience in a way that allows others to understand what you feel. Offer basic details about the situations in which you felt the emotions. The benefit is gained simply through exposure. Others will tell you when they understand your experience and when they do not.
Emotional skills are usually obtained as one progresses through years of counseling. They cannot be “book-learned”. Emotional skills require experiential learning. This takes time, practice and guidance.
This is not counseling, however, since there is no attempt at tying-in personal history to current experience. There is no defining of personal issues. There is no reaching for specific goals other than the ability to communicate real emotions, and therefore relate in more meaningful ways.
We are not trying to help someone thoroughly explore an emotion, so that they arrive at greater truth. Nor are we taking into account their history, characteristics or goals. We are not trying to counsel. We merely want to help people get used to talking about their emotional experiences, using emotion words, exploring the experience of specific emotions, seeing how emotions come in sets and layers.
If they are also lucky enough to find a source of their emotion, so much the better. But getting to sources, testing truth and choosing truthful behavior are not the objectives of this forum. Discovery of your unconscious sources of emotion may occur in these discussions, or when you use your personal journal or your counselor to further explore something you raised here. But it is not the intent of this forum to complete your inner exploration, and the remaining steps in the Path of Emotion.
The Solarium is not the only place where this type of communication can occur. However, we want to provide one specific place where it is the central value. This will encourage the expression of real feelings, practicing vulnerability and safety, and seeing how emotions are a legitimate path into Higher Consciousness. Hopefully, this will lead to greater self-discovery, connections to more people, application of experience to the pursuit of Higher Consciousness and humanization of membership in BEingThere.net.
For further reference, see the Lessons in Consciousness, published on April 15th and May 1st, 2006, called “How Do You Feel About That? – Parts 1 & 2”. Especially note the section in this lesson that explains what to do if you feel you have “bitten off more than you can chew”.
You can also refer to the forum section called, “Forum Insights”, located in the Consciousness Education Center (CEC), for periodic discourses on emotional skill-building. These are learned skills that will develop only as you practice them. We will periodically facilitate the learning process as moments arise.
This is one of the central skills in using the Path of Emotion to pursue Higher Consciousness. We applaud risk-taking, vulnerability and sincere exploration. You will be amazed at how much validation and support you receive, as well as how your rate of growth increases.
Exposure is not weakness. To the contrary, exposure is the first step to true vulnerability, the power behind unimaginable self-discovery and self-realization.
So tell us, “How do you feel about that?”
(continued April 19, 2006 - SB)
Whenever anyone shares an emotion that is not yet integrated, they inherently feel vulnerable, shaky, uncertain, exposed, afraid of judgment, and apprehensive about letting loose such "uncontrolled" power (like they are unsure what's going to happen when they let it out of the box). The natural inclination is to shrink back into the crowd, go away, hide in your room, or any other form of retreat that provides respite and relief from the agony of exposure, i.e. safety.
We invite you, instead, to share the next level of emotion. This means coming back to share your next experience, describing what you feel about what you felt. This process can go several layers down. In each new layer of emotion, you realize something different. Like all fear, when it is brought into the light of examination, it tends to lose its punch. A deeper and more meaningful safety is often created internally by proceeding further, rather than retreating.
We work with emotion to defuse them of their drama and to claim their power. The rest of the world may thrive on drama. Certainly, the entertainment industry (music, movies, television, stage, sports, news, etc.) wants us to believe that "drama is life". But drama does not serve consciousness.
When we support the drama, in ourselves or in others, we are no longer working to claim self-responsibility for what we feel and then do, our emotion and behavior. When we allow the drama to run, we cannot claim the power of our emotion. It is being dissipated and squandered as a mini-storm.
Feel it, yes. Feel all of it, yes. Feel it to its natural depth, yes. Thrive on the turmoil in ourselves or others, no. Endorse the chaos, no. Believe it is evidence of being alive, no. Encourage the attention of others who thrive on your turmoil, no. Feel - yes. Drama - no.
When one is trained to handle something viewed as dangerous, it no longer strikes fear. It's only emotion. Emotion cannot harm, regardless of how it feels. It's only emotion!
(continued April 28, 2006 - SB)
I feel respect for your experience.
I empathize with your frustration over not understanding.
I imagine that my previous statements raise issues in the category of "understanding being the key to safety". Therefore, lack of understanding equates to lack of safety.
I feel mixed about assuaging someone's fears and frustrations. On one hand, I want to be as safe as possible to encourage further exploration. On the other hand, too much safety often leads to complacency for those who do not continuously seek. Since I can not immediately know who will settle into their comfort zone and who will continue to reach beyond their comfort zone, I permit myself to be somewhat challenging. When I feel this level of trust in their seeking, I rarely feel the need to challenge.
Vulnerability is the laboratory for self-discovery.
When I trust that someone will constantly choose their own growth through seeking, always reaching just beyond their comfort zone, I have no need to challenge.
When someone refuses to reach outside their comfort zone, I have no need to coerce.
When someone presents as a seeker, but resists their vulnerability, I challenge their image.
I feel responsible for remembering my role in this reality as a guide, and discerning which is occurring with whom.
I know I am completely trustworthy with anyone's vulnerability. I am, perhaps, the safest person in the world for those who truly seek.
I accept I will not be liked by those whose image of seeking is in question.
I accept I will be rejected by those who devalue seeking.
I do not want to alleviate all discomfort (that which I am capable of alleviating).
I want to provide ultimate safety for those who ultimately seek.
I will answer all true questions, in the time and place where such dialogue works.
I feel nothing but complete respect for those who choose willingness to feel and willingness to deal. Many members are creating this reputation here. Sometimes, it is created over time, through two steps forward and one step back. I feel delighted by the manner in which members are using this area to identify and share their continuous emotion. I would feel disappointed if I contributed to its transformation into a mental exercise.
I feel certain of my willingness to explain (and explore, if necessary) anything I have written or said previously.
I choose to offer explanation in a separate discussion thread, in the Member Initiated Discussions.
The Hearth: "Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment"
Started May 18, 2005 - Stephen BE
This discussion, about Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment, is the central discussion for BEingThere.net. This is the “raison d’être,” the reason for being. Everything that comes from BEing There Enlightenment Systems, every book, every article, every course, every retreat, every personal discussion, every evolution of a website, is an expression of this theme. It is by understanding this topic that everything else that you encounter here, as a member, will make sense.
We highly recommend that you engage in this discussion regularly. Ask questions of others. Test your ideas about Higher Consciousness and about Enlightenment. Explain the foundation of your perceptions. Share with others who are newly exploring the possibilities of a Higher Consciousness world. Regardless of your prior exposure to the concept of Higher Consciousness, you should be consistently exercising your belief system through this discussion.
If you have little or no exposure to “Consciousness”, you will learn quickly by engaging with others in this discussion. You will find that there are many different perspectives about levels of consciousness. And you will probably see that many people hold strong beliefs in this area. Do not let their strength of conviction deter you from your exploration. There is no proof for any single perspective, and there is no dogma required for the realization of Higher Consciousness.
In the end, your Personal Truth will be the determining factor in the lessons of consciousness. And you can begin to hear and respect your Personal Truth right now, regardless of how sophisticated you may, or may not, be with these concepts.
Anyone who sincerely pursues Higher Consciousness also practices a high degree of humility about the lessons they have learned. As the American philosopher, Alan Watts said, there is wisdom in insecurity. Those who pursue Higher Consciousness have learned to embrace the experience of insecurity. Those who also feel insecure in this discussion will be invited to feel welcome. A sense of conviction in Personal Truth does not display itself in expressions of superiority.
Following your Personal Truth will naturally lead you to the lessons of Higher Consciousness, which when learned, give you the perspective that everyone is right where they need to be in order to learn what is theirs to learn. Pretending to be otherwise is antithetical to the pursuit. Learn to recognize your Personal Truth, and then commit to following it, and you will realize Higher Consciousness.
One of our favorite quotes, one that we have used as a corporate motto for years, comes from Vaclav Havel. He said, “Consciousness precedes BEing!” We take from this that before any reality can exist, there must first be a consciousness of that reality. In other words, before you can realize any level of Higher Consciousness, you must first have an awareness of what that consciousness is. What will it look like? How will it feel? What might it mean in your relationships? How will you make the necessary changes? What existing beliefs will be challenged? And so on … First you awaken, then you can realize.
To work on your consciousness, means you must first have a vision of that consciousness. You need to be able to direct your efforts. Without such a vision, you can only wander aimlessly. So, use this discussion to explore, test, question, experiment, explain, challenge and confirm.
If you would like references for this discussion, you can read about consciousness, and the levels of consciousness, in our foundation book, Feeling Your Way Along (©1995), which you can find in the Bookstore. We respect the writings of several other authors, who explain levels of consciousness in terms that are understandable to the western mind. Highest among these is Ken Keyes, Jr., who wrote Handbook to Higher Consciousness (©1973). You can also read Yogi Philosophy (©1903) by Yogi Ramasharaka, and you will begin to appreciate that Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment are timeless concepts, and they certainly are not inventions of the western world. Go to The Bookstore.
We invite you to make this discussion the centerpiece of your exploration. We welcome you.
(continued May 30, 2005 - DB)
Welcome again to the discussion on Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment!
As Stephen stated, Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment is the reason for BEing. It is at the core of all work, all play, all relationships, all aspects of life. You’ve read about the pursuit of Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment in our books.
But, right now, you can start the conversation off with some of your thoughts, feelings, beliefs, perceptions and questions about Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment. That’s pretty broad. So, break it down to start the discussion.
How about starting by sharing one of your beliefs about Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment that is dear to you. If you recall, tell the discussion group when and where you were first introduced to the idea. You might also share how that belief shows up in your behavior. And, where you struggle to live in accordance with that belief in your everyday life. Maybe, ask how others in the group relate to your belief and if it, too is dear to them. This will get the conversation rolling!
(continued Dec. 28, 2005 - SB)
Spirituality is a great topic for discussion, and it seems to spark a lot of interest in many members. It is also the easiest aspect to associate with consciousness. I want to remind everyone that consciousness is determined by four aspects - physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. It is far more complex than "spirituality" alone.
This would be a good room to explore how we advance our skills on other aspects. What do we do on the physical aspect, for example, not just to maintain our health, but to pursue consciousness? How about the mental aspect, what skills have we discovered need to be learned? Where have we sought guidance? How can we measure them? And so on.
There are many discussions occurring here on how one deals with their emotional experience to learn the lessons of consciousness. You might need to interpret an individual post a little to see the emotional skill-building. But it is there.
Remember to look at the big picture. How do you know which aspect needs attention? How do you steer this ship? How do you choose a heading? How do you find a master? How do you accommodate your world when you feel you must change course? How do you rise above the immediacy and remember the greater perspective?
The more you realize, the more there is to see. There is so much to learn, it may take an entire lifetime, maybe longer!
(continued Jan 2, 2006 - SB)
Skill-building does occur on each aspect of BEing. But we quickly dissipate our energy and get off-track when we try to build everything at once. Emotional skills are where nearly everyone needs to begin their pursuit. This may continue for years, as we all have much inner work we must accomplish before we are ready to simultaneously include another aspect in our daily work.
Remember, when the skills of the emotional aspect rise enough, there will be a discovery of the next "aspect of least development" that will occur naturally, using the emotional skills that have been learned and integrated. Eventually we will be working on all four aspects simultaneously, but it is important to realize that this would require full-time work. There would be no time for anything other than the full-time pursuit of Higher Consciousness.
The other aspects often look more appealing to focus on, so our unconscious will want to escape the emotional work and divert our attention to these. It is an easy diversion to take. People who choose to focus on another aspect are usually avoiding their emotional work. This strategy is self-defeating, and can only "work" in the short run. It helps someone to create an image, but that image lacks substance. Emotional work is first, and when successful will lead one to the next set of lessons naturally.
Yes, there are other skills to talk about. And it is okay to wonder about them, seek them, stretch to understand them, and (if it doesn't divert our attention from the more pressing emotional work) try to learn them. But there are some very large "if's" here. Seeking Higher Consciousness skills on an aspect other than our least developed aspect, will just further our imbalance.
I love hearing from others in this discussion who pursue consciousness from another tack and where it led them. There usually are some pretty strong opinions in defense of a specific discipline that someone is practicing. It helps to hear how it is guiding them. It helps further to ask them how they are dealing with their inner emotional work. It invariable involves some form of denial that is framed as mental discipline. It is an interesting discussion, at any rate.
(continued Feb. 26, 2006 - DB)
I'm also interested to know what some of your concepts of Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment are?
What does your picture of Higher Consciousness include?
What is your vision of Enlightenment?
I'd like to share in your perspectives.
(continued May 9, 2006 - SB)
We hope you will provide constant feedback about your growth process. We see BEingThere.net as a lifelong relationship built around our commitment to consciousness guidance. We will know if we are being effective for your growth only if you tell us.
We are in continuous pursuit of Higher Consciousness. We read, study, make connections with teachers, explore consciousness systems, ponder, psychically cast a broad net, discuss, reflect and meditate. Our job is to assimilate, filter, distill and communicate what we find to hold merit.
However, all consciousness must be gained in sequence. No one gets to skip levels of consciousness, or the lessons inherent therein. We want BEingThere.net to be a home for people on all levels, without disparaging comparisons or shades of elitism. One truth about the pursuit of consciousness is that those who have realized the most are also most humble about their pursuit, and therefore the most accepting of the journey of others. Self-aggrandizement is always evidence of false claims.
Many of the things we have learned would only be appropriate to share after other lessons have been addressed. Some of the systems of consciousness, and their teachings, would make the head spin of someone who was not prepared to consider them. So we constantly assess the level at which we communicate.
Should we speak more freely of lessons to come, or should we slow down and allow for the security that grows from familiarity? Your feedback is essential. This forum discussion is a perfect place to examine these questions at any time.
(continued May 24, 2006 - DB)
Issues are part of the make up of our unconscious. The issues are not extinguished regardless of how well we identify and learn to deal with them. The unconscious can not be reformed.
What we are after is to learn to deal effectively with our issues so they do not continue to move us through our lives. We want Personal Truth, instead, to be our navigational system that drives our Truthful Behaviors. Consciousness, BEing There, occurs when behaving in accordance with our Personal Truth.
We are not failing when the issues continue to emerge, they will. Our job is to seek our issues and to work with each issue using the Path of Emotion, each and every time an issue is identified and/or triggered.
An issue brings an invitation to behave unconsciously, reactively. We can learn to decline that invitation and behave responsibly, truthfully, and consciously.
Remember, it's not ever about the issues, it's about how we deal with them. Anyone care to share how effective the Path of Emotion works for you?
Started May 25, 2005 - SB
A book club is a gathering of people who share a common interest in a book, who meet so they can discuss their experience in reading it. When applied to books about Higher Consciousness, the book club becomes a study group of people who are helping each other to learn necessary constructs and skills.
Some of the topics they might talk about are:
· What they learned,
· What they missed,
· What they agreed or disagreed with,
· What the author meant by a certain passage,
· What it brought up for them,
· Other authors who compare or contrast,
· Where it fits in the sequence of their learning,
· The writing style,
· How to apply what they learned
· Or a multitude of other topics.
There is no right way or wrong way to discuss a book, as long as you stay primarily on the book being discussed. To digress into the universe of all books, makes it impossible to maintain any cohesive discussion. And with the international membership of BEingThere.net, you will be introduced to books from all over the world.
If there is a particular book you would like to include in this club, you can put a suggestion in the suggestion box at the Frontdesk, or send a private message to the forum host by clicking the "Host" icon in the header. As long as there is widespread interest, and applicability to the content of this forum, then a club discussion can be scheduled. If there are only a few people interested in discussing it, then it can still be opened up for discussion in the Member Initiated Discussions. Books that are published in languages other than English are nearly impossible to include in this forum.
The books from BEing There Publications™ are the most pertinent books to learning the skills needed to pursue Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment. So, you will see these books rotated into the discussion cycle frequently. Even if you have previously participated in a specific discussion, you can usually get more each time you test what you think you know, by discussing it with others.
We recommend that you always stay engaged in the book club. Keep abreast of where a book topic is right now, as well as where you think it might be heading. As long as there are new eyes in the book club, there will be new perspectives to consider.
(continued May 31, 2005 - DB)
Welcome again to BEingThere.net Book Club!
It's common to feel nervous when you're new at participating in a forum discussion. Remember that you are sharing in a common pursuit, Higher Consciousness and Enlightenment. You're always safe at BEingThere.net to expose your thoughts, feelings, perceptions, and questions.
Here’s a suggestion to get you started…
*Take a moment to reflect on one significant message you discovered while reading.
* Share that discovery of yours with the group. What was so significant about it for you?
* Tell how you applied it to your life.
* What happened next?
* Let the group know where in your life you struggle with integrating that message.
*Now, ask other seekers in the discussion group what they relate to, identify with and have to share in response.
So, take a deep breath and jump on in!
(continued Mar. 20, 2006 - Host)
A. Book Club Guidelines
Book club discussions are most productive when participants have had time to read the book and reflect on it before entering the discussion. Of course, anyone is welcome to participate in the discussion, regardless of when they began reading the book; even if they have not read it. It is always okay to join a discussion at any stage. A late start does not mean you cannot join in. It is also okay to move forward or backward within the book being discussed. The club is here only to serve people’s understanding of the lessons in the book being discussed.
In order to provide the most benefit from the book club, the following timelines and processes are used for planning. These guidelines are not set in stone. If you find they do not help your book club experience, please let the host know.
B. Book Selection
The book to be discussed is primarily determined by popular vote of the participants, with the host making the final determination (taking into account the vote, availability of the book, predicted length of discussion, variation in theme, and so on). Participants are responsible for communicating to the host their desires to discuss a book. Don’t just wait-and-see what others want to discuss. Being assertive about your desires helps the host to make this decision.
The host will periodically call for suggestions. You can send her a Private Message (PM) (look for the icon in the header of the book club) with your nominations before mid-month, when the next vote will occur. You can nominate any book. Remember, however, that there is a recommended reading list in the Bookstore. These books are recommended for a reason. They serve your growth into Higher Consciousness. (See section “D” below.)
The current vote is for the discussion that will begin in 2.5 months (assuming each book requires one month to explore). If the current book is “book #1” and the next book is “book #2”, the current vote will be for “book #3”. The results will be boldly posted on the book club discussion as soon as a determination can be made following the vote. This allows the participants just enough time to order the book, have it delivered, and to read and ponder it before it comes up for discussion in the book club.
C. Length of Discussion Period
Some books will require more than one month to adequately explore through discussion. The host will determine the length of discussion period for a book by taking into account the needs of the participants and the level of interest being expressed in the discussion. This period will not extend any longer than necessary to gain the central lessons of the book. Shorter, simpler books may need only one month. Longer or more complex books may require even more than two months. It would be a rare book that required more than 2 months discussion; possible, but rare.
The length of discussion will not be extended just because people are reading slowly. The book club presumes that it is interest driven. Also, the lessons of the book do not need to be fully comprehended before moving on to the next book. It may take years to fully comprehend the lessons in some books. It serves the best interests of the book club to keep the material fresh. It would be better to discuss a book a second time, later, than to stretch it out. Further, specific topics can be initiated in the Member-Initiated Discussions (MID Hall), to carry-on a topic of interest that extends beyond the book discussion.
D. Recommended Reading List
BEing There claims a certain responsibility as consciousness guides by reviewing and recommending specific books. Not all self-help books are equal. Some are mere gibberish, tripe, nonsense. Some are so antithetical to personal growth, we wish we could ban them, or at least put warning labels on them. Many are selling feel-good promises and mass-market messages.
Even sincere and scholarly books on spirituality, Enlightenment, emotions, relationships, consciousness and psychological issues all have a point of view. We do not recommend a book just to challenge your thinking. Nor do we try to balance our recommendations for the sake of political correctness. We believe in the truth that is expressed in the books we recommend; not necessarily everything that is written there, but its essence and most of its specifics.
By not recommending a book, we are not saying it is without merit. We are not even aware of many worthwhile books. We do, however, screen out books that deny the foundation constructs of BEing There (see Feeling Your Way Along). Many best-sellers do just that. We also admit to a bias: if a book appeals to a mass market, it probably is selling concepts that have mass appeal. The concept of inner work in order to realize Higher Consciousness is not such a concept, as anyone who has walked this path has soon come to realize.
If you think a book belongs on the recommended reading list that is not there, send a suggestion to the BTN staff (Members' Suggestion Box). We will gladly review it. If we are asked, and if we have the time and inclination, we will even post our review in this forum, so everyone can read our opinions. We believe it is helpful to learn how to screen books for their value to the pursuit of Higher Consciousness. Only books that meet this very high standard are included on the recommended reading list.
Current Member-Initiated Discussions (these change frequently):
A Beginning
Started March 28, 2008 by Rena Wix
To everyone -
I have been reading and exploring for several days but always "waiting until next time" to post. I find myself trying to compose just the 'right thing'. Finally decided to just post this little note to get myself out of neutral. I find I think of things I want to ask or say but when I get to the actual screenn, I go blank. Getting started seems to be the important thing for this day though. Rena
Alcoholic Family Issues
Started April 4, 2007 by MiloshHi everyone,
A lot of people seem to come from families where alcohol is/was being abused a lot. I am starting to learn now, that certain dynamics might exist there and could be a common factor to everyone who ever lived with an alcoholic. But I'm also not sure about this.
I'm coming to a dead end street when I try to share about these stuff. A very distressing and confusing thing it can be to live with an alcoholic. My dad drinks since I know for myself. But it is not until several months ago that I admitted to myself that he actually is an 'alcoholic'. I was always aware of his drinking problem, but there was just something in that word that is so official. I was constantly telling myself that he will stop drinking.
I was telling myself that he is not an alcoholic and that I do not have problems because "there are people with lot worse cases" (my tend to ignore and diminish my side) or because "he only drinks on weekends", "he is a good guy"... Now I see that there's a lot more to it. I'm especially glad to see books written on this subject.
Anyways, let this be a place where we can share our thoughts about this
Anticipation of Issues
Started March 5, 2008 by Stephen BEAnticipation of issues is one of the great ways to propel your growth.
This admonition from the conversation in "Bringing-up an Issue" sparks another discussion. In Feeling Your Way Along, we introduced an exercise as part of the Path of Emotion that allows someone to anticipate the issues that may arise from Truthful Behavior (Step 4). In so doing, a seeker may gain multiple lessons from a single issue, simply through anticipation.
Here, I suggest that we play, what amounts to, the "What Would You Do" game. In order to avoid falling into infinite loops of unworkable situations, I suggest that we only consider the issues that arise from real situations. We could all imagine situations that can defeat the Path of Emotion, but curiously, when only real situations are considered, we have never encountered one that exceeded the system for living truthfully.
Remember, we have engaged in 8-10 hours of therapy per day, for 3-5 days per week, for 50 weeks per year, for thirty-four years. Multiply that by the two of us, and then that by the number of issues present in each of those people, then add in our own work on our issues, and you can see how remarkable is the previous statement. The Path of Emotion ALWAYS works when the individual is willing to do the work.
So keep the situations real, or the Truthful Behavior already resulting from your Path of Emotion, and anticipate the issues that might arise. Together, we can ease the process of exploring our experiences, and thus finding and claiming the next level of Personal Truth for each of us.
Anticipation, literally, allows us to cram the work of multiple lifetimes into one. We no longer have to learn one issue at a time. Instead, we piggyback issues, learning the lessons they bring, many at a time. In some situations, some issues, I know I have gained the discovery of dozens of lessons from a single issue. If I had been content to allow them to come up as individual issues, I'd still be in the second grade.
Seekers go looking for their lessons. They get that this is the only purpose of life, and they are unwilling to waste another day, another minute of their life in avoidance or fear. Whatever we find through anticipation, can only speed our growth into Higher Consciousness.
Yes, we may have to be willing to change more quickly. From experience, however, I can tell you that once a truth is known, there is no value in delaying its implementation. Part of developing faith comes from the tenacious and methodical implementation of Personal Truth. The lesson is: If a behavior is truthful, the consequences can only lead to the discovery of further truth. Truth delayed is untrue!
So, who's got a real situation, or a Truthful Behavior, they want to play with? Share it with the rest of us, so we too, can explore what we would do in that situation. Who wants to play?
(... continued March 6, 2008 by Stephen BE)
Okay, this process might need some modification as we proceed. Cindy, you only describe an issue you face. This is not the same as having already worked with that issue so that you know the behavior that will reflect the truth you have claimed. Anticipation of issues can only be completed as you make your preparations to carry-out the already identified Truthful Behavior. I invite you to first work with your issue, and then come back here to anticipate any additional issues that may arise as a consequence of completing the first.I know I probably confused the exercise when I included the suggestion that any situation could be used to anticipate future issues. I am getting clearer today. I think I need to modify my invitation to play as follows.
As was the case in "Bringing up an Issue", there may be situations that you become aware of that might cause you to wonder how you would respond if you were one of the main characters in that situation. It is not a current issue for you, however you could imagine being in a similar situation. These would be useful to anticipate here.
On the other hand, if you are in a specific situation now that invites you to feel disharmony, then you are experiencing a current issue; an issue that needs the full work-up for you to discover and claim your Personal Truth, from which flows Truthful Behavior. It would be avoidant to try to circumvent your own work by polling others about how they would respond if they were in that situation. No one can relieve you from your own work.
So, if you are feeling a current issue, do your work. After you know what the Truthful Behavior would be, then you can try to anticipate additional issues that may arise as you fulfill your truth.
If you see situations that you can imagine would challenge you, but are not really a current issue, then these can be worked with by projecting yourself into that situation and exploring. That's the essence of anticipation. The ability to see yourself in all situations is a magnificent tool of growth.
For example, what if you had been born in Germany in say, 1915 or so. You would have been too young to have suffered the horrors of WWI, but you grew up in its aftermath, a depressed, totally desolated economy, and unrelenting world-wide scorn. You would be a young adult by 1935, as Adolf Hitler and the Nazis came into political power. You would be of an age that would be expected to serve your country in the military. You have already seen some of the persecution of the undesirables in your country, Jews, gypsies, Catholics, developmentally disabled, mentally ill; all in an effort to "purify" the race. You may disagree with some of their tactics, but you are beginning to enjoy the benefits to your country. Then, as a twenty-something, you are called into service. What would you do, given your current level of self-awareness?
Do you see how anticipation of such a scenario will raise significant issues in any feeling person? Everyone is well-served to find their issues here, and work them through. This is the kind of issue-anticipation that magnifies one's rate of growth. If we get far enough into this process, I'll explain why this is so.
Started April 19, 2006 by Stephen BE
We are constantly collecting material for many books we have in mind. One working title, for a book on the essential value of vulnerability, is "The No-Denial Zone". As part of this book we are collecting messages that propose, support and defend the use of denial as an effective emotional skill.
There must be an infinite number of these messages, as we continue to encounter them everywhere we go. Like when you have an eye for a particular style of vehicle, it appears frequently, so too, when you have an eye for denial messages, they seem to come out of the ethers.
We would love to use this forum topic as a place to share some of those we have heard, and especially to hear some of the messages you have come across or that you carry around with you.
Please tell your most astounding denial messages! If you know where it originated, please credit the source. If you can trace where you heard it or picked it up, identify the source in relation to you rather than by name. If you can quote it exactly, like those in written form, give credit to the author. If it is an institutional value, document it as well as possible.
This can be both fun and frightening. By sharing our experiences about denial messages we have lived with or encountered, we can take some of the scariness out of them. Keep on the lookout for denial messages. And become a reporter of truth.
Go to the Member-Initiated Discussions Hall
Started 9/25/07 by Stephen BE
By the presence of internal disharmony.
Quote: How do you know you have an issue present?
You practice the Path of Emotion, going inward first, until you update your Personal Truth:
Quote: How do you deal with that issue?
1. Choose willingness to feel all that you feel and to deal with all that you feel.
2. Explore your experience, starting with the disharmony. Get to know the territory that is revealing itself to your awareness. As much as possible, explore until the source or sources of that experience emerge.
3. Test those sources for their current veracity, using your Ring of Truth. Is that [belief, value, perception, early life experience] true for you now? (Of course, you must recognize your individual experience of the Ring of Truth.) Once your current truth is identified, then claim it fully (an active process). Once current truth is claimed, the behavior that is consistent with that truth is self-evident.
4. Enact the behavior that is consistent with your truth, being inwardly prepared to deal with whatever consequences occur from your truthful behavior.
Okay, you got this far. That is no small feat. Very few people in this world can even get to this level of consciousness. But let's not stop there. (If this is too new, and you haven't gotten there yet, then review Feeling Your Way Along, and ask questions, lots of questions, in these forum discussions.)
Suppose the truthful behavior that resulted from your Path of Emotion requires you to engage another person. Let's say you have an issue with that person, and you want to explore it with them and, hopefully, have them agree to a different behavior.
Quote: How do you bring up an issue, in truth, with the greatest possibility for a favorable mutual agreement?
This is the step in development of consciousness that represents the next phase of growth. First, one must learn to know himself or herself and update and claim their Personal Truth. Then they must learn how to engage others in truth, in hopes of creating intimacy. These are separate levels of skill. Unfortunately, most people never get to the level of creating conscious relationships, because they hit hurdles in their own inner development (usually their unwillingness to feel and deal with certain emotions, like for example, impending abandonment by the other person).
Assuming that everyone here will ALWAYS choose willingness to feel and to deal, then eventually everyone will encounter the problems inherent in raising issues with those you care about. The problems come from the difference in dynamics between you and the other person. You are practicing the skills of the Fourth Level of Consciousness, while the other person is still relating from the Security, Sensation and/or Power Levels of Consciousness.
If you strive to live your life 100% in accordance with your Personal Truth, you will learn to approach others truthfully. Unfortunately, the people with whom you want to engage probably do not yet know how to respond from their truth. It is likely that they have not yet discovered the value of truth and truthful engaging.
So here you are, striving and floundering to BE in your truth and behave in truthful ways. And there they are, continuing to react the same old ways, without consciousness and devoid of Personal Truth. You are in truth. They are reacting. They defensively proclaim that they are being "truthful too", but they do not yet even know what Personal Truth is. Truthful behavior vs Unconscious reaction. Different dynamics.
They can only see you through their own perceptions, limited by their current level of consciousness. You appear to be using a much more powerful set of dynamics. To someone concerned about power, this is even more distressing. They feel like they are losing the exchange and must fight even harder to prevent being overpowered. The content of the issue is lost. Only the dynamics matter. While you are interested in truthful resolution to the issue, their aim is to avoid being overpowered, and possibly annhilated.
Let's explore this experience, since everyone has probably encountered it. Let's find ways to behave in ways that are consistent with Personal Truth, regardless of the responses you receive. So here are some of the relevant questions:
Quote: How do you raise an issue in a responsible, truthful way with someone who continues to operate from the old system of engaging?
Quote: How do you enlist their participation in what you have learned is a healthier way of BEing?
Quote: Once the issue is raised, how do you see it through to a satisfying resolution?
Quote: How much responsibility do you assume in trying to educate them, or assuage their feelings of threat, or raise their consciousness, or get them to see the value of BEing in Truth?
Go to the Member-Initiated Discussions Hall
Started Jan. 8, 2007 by Michelle
Your experiences are ones that I bet you could predict might happen, but hoped you wouldn't encounter so loudly. You have worked very hard with your unconscious. It is interesting to see that even after working so hard, it does not escape you. I sometimes think, if I just had time to spend meditating, reading, staying with my feelings, I would be more grounded. Then when I have the time, it's kind of scary to commit to these because it much more appealing to have an activity that doesn't involve much reflection.
You won't be able to escape the feelings, but if you realize that you are now floating in a place that has lost it's anchor and try to be patient with this unsettling feelings, they will come and go.
I am a very beginner at meditating, but I have tried Tonglen and I like it. On the in breath, you breath in the feeling of anxiety for example. On the out breath you give that feeling space or calmness. You can do this for yourself, then extend it to others who might be feeling the same as you are. I do feel calmer and more grounded when I am done.
Thank you for sharing your journey. Remember the most unsettling times are the greatest opportunities, or so it is said. Michelle(continued Jan. 9, 2007, by Stephen BE)
Quote: I sometimes think, if I just had time to spend meditating, reading, staying with my feelings, I would be more grounded. Then when I have the time, it's kind of scary to commit to these because it much more appealing to have an activity that doesn't involve much reflection. (Michelle 1/8/07)
Michelle, I translate this, perhaps mistakenly as, "I would be more grounded if I was actually in touch with my truth, but I don't really want to claim that level of self-responsibility."
"Groundedness results from claiming responsibility for Personal Truth."
I think I would include this in the "Universal Truth" file.
Remember, self-awareness does not become Personal Truth unless it is put into action, through truthful behavior. In this way, self-awareness is nothing but a "booby prize."
You describe perfectly the dilemma that most seekers must face repeatedly. It is very helpful to put it into words so we can all see ourselves very clearly in the mirror. Do we really want Higher Consciousness, or do we just want to flirt with it?
Go to the Member-Initiated Discussions Hall
Comments about Anything on BTN
Started Oct. 5, 2005 by Stephen BE
This is a place for members to submit "letters to the editor" type comments about any of the long-term or standing pages on this website.
These include the news articles, current or archived, One Last Insight, the business or membership directories, any of the dozens of information pages, the guided tour, the short courses, the study guides, or any other item you wish to comment on.
You may also respond to any comments posted here. Please enter the title of the news article or the page about which you are commenting in the subject line of your new post. If a running discussion emerges, it can be split-off into a separate page later.
(continued in another post)
This forum discussion is here for members to sound-off on anything they read here. Does it touch you? Are you moved? Is it disturbing? Is it helpful? Are you challenged to update your truth? Is it completely off-base? Are you confused? Does something contradict another understanding you have? What happens when you apply what you learn? Do you need to speak-out about something? Do you struggle with a specific teaching? Is there something we overlook in the pursuit of Higher Consciousness? And so on.
If a comment strikes a chord, it may be directed into a discussion thread. If you read a member comment that you agree with or that troubles you, you can respond to it. The important point here is, your feedback is always appreciated and may even be crucial in modifying a message. Feedback and comments are what keep us on track by challenging us to go back and review the truth we believe we have discovered.
(A little known secret about me - I have been known [only in the past] to sometimes stir the hornet's nest just for the excitement. Not saying I ever do it now, but you never know!) We are human, we have issues, and while we work constantly on our issues to arrive at ever-greater Personal Truth, we may miss something, overlook something, or misinterpret something. In other words, do not blindly sanctify our teachings, ever! (good advice for all teachings, all writings, from all sources)
We write so that others may find more of their Personal Truth, and then reflect that truth in their behavior. Work to discover your own truth. Use this forum to help in the discovery and sorting process. And please, let us know how its going.
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Started December 5, 2006, by Seejay
Hi All,
I value the Consciousness Lessons very much, and would like to initiate a discussion about them.
Vulnerability is such an important behavior, and experiencing the unconscious imprints that are in place can be a very disharmonious experience. The connection that I feel to the people here on the forum is a great reminder to me that vulnerability leads to intimacy and connection.
Go to the Member-Initiated Discussions Hall
Started November 13, 2006, by Karmillah
As we navigate through the Path of Emotion, we have committed to Willingness to feel and deal with all that we Feel. We’ve explored these emotions and worked through the various levels till we’ve reached a profound understanding and recognition of our Core Experience, e.g. Abandonment, Co-dependency, Being Ignored, Engulfment etc. Sometimes we have different names for the same experiences, e.g. ‘not-good-enough’ and ‘low self esteem’.
We all have core issues – some are common to us, others not. Learning to see and know our core issues is fundamental to our ongoing growth. However, these cannot always be done in isolation.
With the help of a partner, a good therapist or even a Forum member (in my case), we’re able to unearth them.
Up until recent, I had no idea what co-dependence meant, until I read discussions by Tycee and Michelle on the issue of co-dependence.
I identified in their sharing and went searching for additional information on Co-dependence and lo and behold, I found that co-dependency is indeed a core issue of mine. To verify if this is indeed so, I worked through the Path of Emotion and found it glaring at me.
Brian talked about Engulfment and I knew exactly what he meant, only I’ve never thought about it that way. His sharing showed up another aspect of myself that I had never considered. This gave me a deeper insight into my behaviour in intimate relationships. Using the Path of Emotion to clarify and confirm was such a meaningful exercise. I’m truly humbled and grateful to Brian for mentioning it.
So, I wondered if the Forum Members would consider engaging in an ‘Issue sharing’ discussion listing all the issues that one could possibly experience, to aid the rest of us on our Path?
The benefit to us all, I believe would be immense.
What say you?
Go to the Member-Initiated Discussions Hall
Started May 5, 2007 by Sher
I decided to start this MID to help us all process the uncertainty and "fragility" of Life.
My 16 yr old daughter was one of 12 kids that went on a geology field trip to Utah Arches. She was so excited to go today because they were going with her favorite teacher. They made it 3 miles up the trail, had lunch, and the teacher started complaining of chest pain. He died on that trail with all the kids trying to save him. He was 55yrs old.There were no other adults with them, but luckily, a nurse came along and she, with another man, did CPR for at least 35 min. The boys ran back down the trail to get help at the visitor center as the four girls stayed to help comfort the teacher's son who had also been on the hike. My daughter called me after they made it down to the visitor center and was very upset. She loved that man.
I can imagine that this will be a huge significant event in her life that she will always remember. She will be going through a whirlwind of emotions. Right now, she is trying to process exactly what happened and what went wrong. She said "I kept thinking it would be OK, and then....it wasn't".
"One minute I was sitting there talking to him and the next, he was gone."
She is in shock right now and mostly just wants to talk and be held. They were brave kids on that trail today and have really bonded together through that experience. They had to ride home on the bus, thinking about the events of the day.
We just never know.
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Started December 26, 2006 by Deeds
Hey everyone,
Thinking about avoiding “the holes” in our lives got me thinking about distraction. This is a good time of year to think about all the things that we do to distract ourselves. At Christmas we are a little more exposed and vulnerable to introspection. We have a holiday, no work to hide behind and distract ourselves with. We have our nearest and dearest around us (oh shit) and enough food, drink and toys to satisfy even the worst glutton. All the things that we have been told will make us happy, and yet… they conspicuously FAIL to do so.
Everything that we have ever believed in is challenged and found wanting. So, we feel inadequate and threatened, but we have no idea what to do. Maybe I’m not doing it right, we plunge in and redouble our efforts to work, eat, drink and consume. Not working is it? But, some of these activities distract us and some of them can bring oblivion, the ultimate distraction.
Is this not the root of all addiction? The desperate search for the off switch. When we fear and hate what we have become we will swap our condition even for the life of a junkie? Or a workaholic, an alcoholic, a shopaholic. We can all look down on the junkie, hopefully with compassion, but what about the rest of us. It’s amazing how creative we can be.
Family, sickness, neurosis, relationships, sex, politics, religion, war, discrimination, tribalism. There are many distractions that are not so obvious, anymore good ones?
All of this and for what? To avoid and distract ourselves from what? Yes we are threatened and afraid, but of what? I find it difficult to express and was hoping for some help, perhaps together we might throw some light on the question?
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Started May 10, 2006 by Deeds
There are certain people that bring out the worst in me. They are not enemies in the true sense of the word, often they are just people I don’t like for some reason. I am always happy to hear of their misfortune and have even been prepared on occasion, in my dark past, to stick the knife in. Not very nice, but true. I was reading one of the Dalai Lama’s many books in which he spoke about the Chinese occupation of his homeland in Tibet. He spoke of the lessons that he had learned from the Chinese, lessons about himself. Powerful, deeply unpleasant but very important lessons. Then I read Stephen’s post on relationships with people other than partners. I added the people that I don’t get along with to the list.
I can think of a business acquaintance that I believed had put one over on me. For years I bad mouthed him at every opportunity. I couldn’t stand the sight of him. Then, thinking about it the other day I realised that in that specific instance I had failed to properly read the contract and had to pay a penalty. I was angry and humiliated and since I wasn’t prepared to accept the blame, I gave it to him.
As I pondered the list I was surprised and shocked to realise that my own sister was on it. I realised with a jolt that I don’t like her very much. That’s a terrible thing to say, but I can’t avoid how I feel. Now why I feel that way is more difficult, it probably says more about me than her. It's something I need to work on.
Does anyone else have enemies/unfriends that might make good teachers? (Work, weddings and funerals are always a rich vein.)
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Started July 29, 2007 by Donna BE
Recent discussions in various topics have included mention of Engulfment (a few examples: Rebecca dealing with engulfment surrounding her move to Colorado; Andrew sympathizing with her struggle; Tycee acknowledging feeling engulfed by her own co-dependence; Karen talking about sexual presentation and boundaries). So what is Engulfment??
Engulfment is yet another common core issue. Harville Hendrix, Ph.D., author of Getting The Love You Want, identifies two core issues, Abandonment and Engulfment. That is an interesting simplification of core issues, but that is a discussion that exceeds the scope of this post.
In very general terms, engulfment is a fear of being swallowed up and rendered powerless by some perceived “authority”. Imagine in nature, the tidal wave engulfing the houses and high rises on the beach, wiping out their existence.
This can be translated to mean a person, a relationship, an employer, a corporation, a clique of people, the government, the society at large, etc..
The emotions associated with the fear of engulfment or the experience of engulfment, can include:
dominated
overwhelmed
overcome
captivated
surrounded
swallowed up
controlled
overpowered
conquered
crushed
trodden
suffocated
trounced
smothered
tread upon
squashed
trampled
defeated
triumphed over
squelched
constrained
forced
bound
restrained
confined
subjugated
boxed-in
possessed
dominated
oppressed
broken
demoralized
prohibited
owned
immobilized
forced
curbed
emasculated
encompassed
consumed
swarmed
captive
enslaved
incarcerated
caged
imprisoned
annihilated
eradicated
wiped out
extinguished (To name a few)
Where does engulfment stem from? There are several sources in our E.L.E. (early life experience) that result in the experience of engulfment and then perpetuate the anticipatory fear of being engulfed. It is important to first note that the child regards their parent as God. God! The child looks only to the parent as their “reality meter”. The child trusts the parent implicitly. The child will defer to the parent when faced with a discrepancy between the parent’s and their perception, each and every time without hesitation. The child knows unconsciously that the parent is their only key to survival.
When a small child (1-2 years of age) is developmentally ready to explore their world beyond their parents’ lap, they follow this natural urge by attempting to climb down. If this endeavor is consistently prohibited by the parent, because of their own issues, the child will feel any number of emotions on the preceding list.
This is true as well, with older children who are overly controlled, especially when the control is arbitrary. When the parents react to the child’s need for individuation with such overpowering behaviors, the child is imprinted with “Everyone who loves you will _________(fill in a word from the list) you!”; “If you’re vulnerable, you’ll be _________ (fill in a word from the list)”; and, “If your parents, who have the greatest investment in you treat you this way, everyone else with less investment will treat you worse.”
No wonder those of us with engulfment issues are so apt to stay guarded and run at the slightest sign of perceived encroachment.
So, I’ll pause here to ask you…
Is engulfment something you want to discuss here?
Is the picture of what the issue of engulfment looks like more clear?
Do you experience many of the emotions on this partial list?
How do you guard against this emotional experience in anticipation of it?
What does reacting to these emotions in your behavior look like for you?
What questions do you have about engulfment?
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Started Jun. 29, 2006 by Donna BE
Someone's dying in your vicinity is a great opportunity to explore your emotions surrounding death that will guide you toward your Personal Truth.
Many years ago, I worked with elderly clients and their families and I took each opportunity when in the presence of someone dying to explore my beliefs around death. Not morbid, not selfish, not weird, just embracing the lessons offered to you.
About 20 years ago, I had a sister who chose suicide as an alternative to willingness to feel and deal with her emotional experience. Profoundly sad that she opted out of the lessons available to her at the time, to instead delay them.
I can relate to pain, suffering, disconnection and the many emotions that can invite someone to consider the "exit" of suicide. I spent much time, however, trying to identify with her choice. I could not. I cannot. It's not one that feels truthful for me. I hope that her next life will be one that she takes full advantage of, rather than trying to escape.
No matter the circumstance, death brings up grief to those still living. I'm with you in yours!
(continued Jun. 30, 2006 by DB)
There are a myriad of ways people attempt to avoid the pain of feeling their issues (Exits): over-indulgence in alcohol, sex, food, work, drugs and gambling; martyrdom, extreme sports; insanity; and, suicide.
As in suicide, they sometimes succeed. The person usually feels consumed by pain and just wants it to stop. Regardless of the immediate intent, suicide, with some rare exceptions, is an extreme act of selfishness and anger!
Suicide can invite guilt, co-dependence, blame by others, self-blame, grief and its stages, abandonment, confusion, disconnection, awkwardness, anger, helplessness, relief (yes, I mean to say relief), hopelessness, anxiety, futility, and more.
My training and work in the field of crisis/suicide intervention prior to my sister's suicide allowed me many opportunities to update my imprints of responsibility for other's lives and/or potential deaths. And, my consciousness work provided me much footing when I was invited to take the blame for not preventing her death ("You're a psychotherapist, couldn't you save your sister?").
Thank goodness I was clear that it was not my fault nor was I to blame for her choice. She, and only she was responsible for her emotions, her behaviors and her sources.
This just left the great sorrow, disappointment and grief to experience. That was plenty enough. I chose willingness to feel it and to deal with it. It passed from foreground to background in my experience, as all grief eventually does when not avoided and denied.
Over the next twenty years, I have experienced occasional waves of sorrow, a periodic longing to dialog with her about our childhood, and a hope that, in her journey she has extrapolated the many lessons available to her as a result of her "exit".
Exits are an illusion, a self-delusion that only delay the lessons and make the presentation more and more dramatic.
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Started August 16, 2007 by Brian
In different places around the forum, we talk about the issues that come up in dealing with our family of rearing (FOR). But, I can’t recall having a place for a discussion that revolves around dealing with these relationships. So, I thought it would be helpful to start one, here. I’m dealing with these dynamics on a day-to-day basis, and can appreciate how pervasive and important they are. I’m sure that my experience is a shared one. So, what comes/came up for you in dealing with your FOR? How do you/did you deal with it? What lessons are/were available to you? What would you like to talk about?
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Started April 19, 2007 by Deeds
Hi everyone,
This has been bugging me so I thought, post it and see what develops.
Some of the ideas and concepts we look at here I find difficult to express. I also find that I am wary of my own motives for posting, entitlement, presentation, rescuing. I fear that I may upset or annoy somebody. I fear that I will receive no response. I also get what I can only describe as forum fatigue. In the back of my mind I have several things that I mean to deal with but they may be scattered over several posts. I find it hard sometimes to bring myself to focus on one subject. The end result is that I remain silent. If the forum is quiet I then feel a building desire to fill the silence and I also check that. I feel that as a result I lose some spontaneity and sparkle.
I feel that much is left unsaid, even here where we practice vulnerability. Perhaps this is appropriate, perhaps some reserve is necessary? The question is how much? When does reserve become frustrating. Take the book club, absolutely silent. Why is that? This is not a critcism, I'm curious.
Hopefully others will have feelings about posting, or should I say, not posting, that they are willing to share.
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Getting to Know You ... Getting to Know All About You
Started July 13, 2006 by Tycee and Karen
Karen and I were talking this morning about starting a new thread as a place to share some about ourselves and get to know each other. We simultaneously started singing the lyrics to the song, "Getting to know you!" It was fun.
Our thought is that we can share our stories and get to know each other and also add how it feels to share about ourselves. What do you all think?I will start.
...
(cont'd. by Karen)
This is fun.
It feels a bit like a cocktail party with an added dimension. Tycee, I like how you included your consciousness work.
Here's some of my stuff...
...
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Healthy Sexuality
Started March 1, 2008 by TyceeIn therapy, Donna. has been talking to my partner and I about sex and sexuality. One of the experiences I have is relief as she talks. Donna is so comfortable talking about sex that it invites my comfort too. She says it is taking the buzz out of sex.
I thought it may be a good place to start talking about sex again. What is the source of your "buzz" about sex?
I have recently realized that I am playing out the same dynamic now as when I was a teen. I begin to work on claiming my sexuality and start to get some footing but as soon as I perceive someone else to be pointing out that I don't quite measure up - I immediately buy into that message and retreat. I buy into it because it is my internal message from my puberty years. Sometimes I think I perceive the external message correctly and sometimes I don't at all. When I retreat I am not measuring up. I have discovered that it is true for me that I am worthy of learning to become a fully sexual and sensual woman. Wow, I feel fear saying that. My unconscious jumps right up and says "Who do you think you are". Another imprint - "Only exceptionally beautiful women are worthy of claiming their sexuality". Not true. I flash on Donna talking about it not only being ok to claim our sexuality, but our responsibility. It is part of our energy that we must claim and be responsible for as part of our growth into higher consciousness.
We talked some about issues of sexuality when we were reading Good Girls Guide to Bad Girl Sex. Some of the same fears and issues were expressed by others then. I wonder where we all are now with it.
Wanna talk about it?
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Started Nov. 26, 2006 by Karen
(This is a new topic and I've moved related posts [from other discussions] to this area.)
Holidays:
There is usually a lot to talk about as we deal with feelings and expectations that surface at this time of year.
How do you feel about “the season”? About gifting?
For those of you who live in countries other than the U.S.: Do you have events/celebrations that carry obligations to feel and behave in certain ways?
Donna asked about the Loneliness of this season. Krista wrote about feeling left out. What are you feeling?
Here’s a place to explore...
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Holidays - Gift Giving and Receiving
Started Oct. 26, 2005 by Tycee
Donna mentioned that it was important to gift those you are in intimate relationships with and to look for opportunities to be magnanimous. She was discussing the difference between a gift and codependence and how a codependent gesture cannot be a gift.
We are headed into the holiday season and these issues are forefront during this time of year - for me. I really got yesterday that when you receive a gift that isn't codependent - it is so wonderful.
When I get a gift - I have to work through the internal messages of "I don't deserve this" or "What does the giver want from me now" - my imprints. When I do work through those and I know the giver is acting in truth - wow- I feel so appreciated, seen, loved, valued. It is just wonderful. Something as simple as a kind greeting like "Hi Ya" - feels like a gift when I know the giver was in truth.
(continued Feb. 28, 2006 by Stephen BE)
Notice, everyone, how much less interest there is in exploring this issue when the pressures of the Christmas season have waned. The issues remain unresolved, in all likelihood, but out-of-sight, out-of-mind.
When we know we have issues with certain situations or events, but decline to probe them when they are not forefront, we create the need for increased drama to get our attention. You can count on this: The unconscious will not be denied its due. The issues exist and the unconscious will find a way to make them unavoidable.
If you truly want to live your life in harmony, it is necessary to learn how to reduce the drama, and eventually eliminate it. This is the lesson, right here in this discussion. The drama has subsided for now. But watch what happens next fall.
Seekers get this lesson: go looking for the issues rather than waiting until they blind-side us.
(also continued Mar. 19, 2006 by SB)
Take heed, everyone. The cautionary message in the previous post could not be over-stated. This is where one learns to "get ahead of the issues curve". Choose to deal with issues when they are not pressing, and you will be surprised at how the quality of your life changes.
This dynamic is the issue, not the specific of holiday gift-giving. A word to the wise ...
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Started January 15, 2007 by Tycee
I wanted to start this topic because many of us have issues stemming from sexual abuse in our pasts and it is often kept a secret and is taboo to talk about. Talking about it has helped me use the experience to grow and gain consciousness which gives it some value in my life. I would like to invite anyone else who deals with sex abuse or has insights to share to talk with me here.
First of all, does this topic interest anyone? If so where would be a starting place that would be comfortable? We could share experiences, talk about common issues related to sex abuse, ask questions and much more I am sure. If you would prefer to private message me with regard to this post, feel free to do that.
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Started June 2006 by Andrew BE
Feelings of loneliness and aloneness seem quite common among those of us who choose a different path in life... or at least we're the ones who recognize and tune-in to a lesson that is universal among all people.
These lessons are new for me (see my last post) and I'd really like to hear what others have found in dealing with them.
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Started August 30, 2006 by Brian
As per Stephen’s request (see MID on unconditional love), I’ll start a discussion here about loyalty. My thoughts on the subject started intensely when I discovered a feeling of disloyalty on my first night back at college. As best I could, I traced the feeling to leaving my mother back in Vermont. Because I was behind in preparing to go to school this past week, my mother has been willing to take up more of my responsibility. For example, after dinner I would go right upstairs to pack, while she assume my customary role of cleaning up. Whether verbalized or not, the assumption when someone takes anothers’ responsibility is that the favor will be reciprocated; that I will take some of her responsibility. As indicated by my feelings of disloyalty, I was taking some of her responsibility to emotionally adjust to me leaving.
This got me thinking about loyalty. It’s a concept that we celebrate and demand in our friends, but here it is indication to an unhealthy dynamic. Is loyalty only a synonym for “unconditional codependence?” If not completely, at what point does loyalty turn unhealthy?
Or can it describe a healthy dynamic? Between a couple working toward intimacy, could loyalty mean a willingness to deal with any issue that comes up? At what point, if any, does this sort of loyalty become unhealthy?
So many questions about what was, until now, a simple concept – “I got your back.” I’d like to know what you think.
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Started October 26, 2006 by Sher
Hello everyone,
As Karen pointed out, this forum is like a party, but I feel like I came in really late and don't know which conversation to join. I decided to post something that I am dealing with and wondered if some of you can relate.
Sue Monk Kidd quotes Elizabeth O'Conner: "It was during a time of painful conflict that I first began to experience myself as more than one. It was as though I sat in the midst of many selves."
Sue then writes,” I too sat in the midst of many selves. The Pleaser, the Performer, the Perfectionist - my trinity of P's. I was learning how closely these old roles were connected to another powerful role that I played out: the Good Little Girl. She was that part of me that had little self-validation or autonomy, who tended to define life by others and their expectations, by collective values and projections. As a woman I sometimes felt that I had been scripted to be all things to all people. But when I tried, I usually ended up forfeiting my deepest identity, my own unique truth as God’s creature.”
As I read this, I realized how closely her words reflect my feelings. Who am I?? It is tough to witness this about myself. As hard as it is to see myself and these (many selves) it would be worse to NOT see them. I don’t want to continue in this drama and not find these selves. It is easy for me and everyone around me to keep my “P’s” alive. What will I be if I am not the “Good Little Girl“?
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Started August 24, 2006 by Deeds
"All circumstances result from the interaction of nature's impersonal forces rather than divine intervention."
Deng Ming-Dao in The Living I Ching
I have always believed that nature was God's creation. (I use the term "God" loosely and do not exclude any belief.) The fire hydrant theory that all of creation, including Mother Nature, is evidence of a greater power seems true to me. I have also sensed a driving force gently steering me. Something beyond myself that calls to the light within me. However no belief is worthwhile if it can't stand a little examination.
Is that power that calls me merely Mother Nature, ie the sentient, spiritual being naturally evolving within me? Or is it external, God?
When does natural become supernatural or Divine, if it does at all? Perhaps as in Taoism, there is just nature, perhaps "God" is a comforting label that helps me make sense of the things that I do not yet understand. A label that shields me from the lonely truth, perhaps we are all there is?
I have always believed that nature is not sentient but as I write these words I wonder if perhaps it could naturally become sentient without Divine Intervention?
Is that what Taoists believe?
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